xbox-xpert Xbox-HQ Newbie Xbox Version: Xbox V1.4(Halo) Modded: Xecuter3
Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 5
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: how softmod works compared to chipmod
Although I'm new to softmodding, I have previously installed my own modchip, and I've also successfully softmodded a friend's Xbox using SID2.0 and AID2.11 (These programs are awesome by the way! Big thanks to the author and all those that contributed).
But the simplicity of softmodding got me wondering why anyone even needs a modchip. I've read through tons of forums and tutorials, but the only real advantage to chipmodding that I can understand is the ability to easily "bypass" the chip in order to go onto Xbox Live, whereas a softmodded box must be returned to normal before using it on Xbox Live. There must be other advantages modchips have over softmodding. Could anyone please explain them to me?
I think the root of my confusion has to do with not understanding how exactly softmodding works. I know that with modchips, a new BIOS is flashed to the modchip and this hacked BIOS runs "in front of" the original BIOS and allows me to run unsigned code. But how does softmodding circumvent the original BIOS and run a new one? Does the replacement dashboard program somehow run a new BIOS "on top of" the unchanged original BIOS? Isn't the data on the hard drive the only information that is changed by the softmod? I have a feeling that the mysterious "EEPROM" which I never quite understood might have something to do with it, but I thought that was "Read-Only" Memory...
Clearly, I am confused. To sum up:
1)What are the advantages and disadvantages of softmodding compared to chipmodding?
2)How does the softmod actually work?
Believe it or not, I'm trying to write a guide to Xbox repair and modification and I know I (obviously) have a lot to learn yet, but any help would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks in advance. _________________ V1.4 Halo SE Green Case
Xecuter3
320 GB Western Digital HD
ATA166 IDE
blighty Xbox-HQ Freak Xbox Version: Xbox V1.4(Halo) Modded: Xecuter3
Joined: Nov 27, 2004 Posts: 881
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:59 am Post subject:
The main diffrence that makes softmodding slightly risky is the fact that a softmodded xbox will not work if you unlock the hdd.
as for the bios, softmodded xbox`s use bfm (boot from media) bios`s that are also copied over with the softmod.
Also your eeprom isn`t read only, If you screw the eeprom up then it is very hard to recover from it,
So beware of configmagic.
As a rule I will never give someone their xbox back with configmagic installed on it.
Good luck with the book & I hope we can help you get it finished.
Joined: May 23, 2003 Posts: 4031 Location: NSW, Australia
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:10 pm Post subject:
Not all softmoddded boxes use a BFM BIOS, as I'm pretty sure Nkpatcher doesnt use it (the softmod exploit used in SID 3). But it still runs from the hacked fonts that are on the xbox to boot the linux-signed nkpatcher.
I've always recommend a modchip over a softmod, mainly for the fact a softmod can be broken, where a modchip is way more reliable. I'm not saying softmods break all the time (and I've heard no bad reports from ppl I've softmodded boxes for) but it's still possible.
And yes, ConfigMagic is definately a program to install, then remove before you give the box back. The eeprom is something you shouldn't play with or touch unless you know exactly why and what you are doing.
xbox-xpert Xbox-HQ Newbie Xbox Version: Xbox V1.4(Halo) Modded: Xecuter3
Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 5
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject:
So would it be accurate to say that a softmodded xbox can do practically everything a chipmodded xbox can---except use Xbox Live, boot from multiple BIOSes, or run an unlocked hard drive?
So the eeprom can be changed, but shouldn't be messed with. Do you guys know what the eeprom does, or why someone would want to change it?
Thanks for your prompt replies to my last questions, blighty and DJB! I work at a game store and I've been talking up AID and SID quite a bit recently (discreetly of course). But before I fully endorse softmodding I'm trying to understand it 100%! Thanks again guys. _________________ V1.4 Halo SE Green Case
Xecuter3
320 GB Western Digital HD
ATA166 IDE
DJB Administrator
Joined: May 23, 2003 Posts: 4031 Location: NSW, Australia
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject:
xbox-xpert wrote:
So would it be accurate to say that a softmodded xbox can do practically everything a chipmodded xbox can---except use Xbox Live, boot from multiple BIOSes, or run an unlocked hard drive?
That's correct. There is a softmod package that has come out though that boasts it can play on Xbox Live, but still it wouldn't be able to run an unlocked drive.
xbox-xpert wrote:
So the eeprom can be changed, but shouldn't be messed with. Do you guys know what the eeprom does, or why someone would want to change it?
The Eeprom stores information about your Xbox (Like the HDD Key, Xbox Region, DVD Drive etc), and information that is used on Xbox Live. You would chnage it for a couple of reasons, firstly your eeprom could be banned from xbox live, and secondly when doing a softmod and upgrading the hdd you have to copy the eeprom from the original drive to the new one.
xbox-xpert wrote:
Thanks for your prompt replies to my last questions, blighty and DJB! I work at a game store and I've been talking up AID and SID quite a bit recently (discreetly of course). But before I fully endorse softmodding I'm trying to understand it 100%! Thanks again guys.
No worries here, always glad to help. I just hope you're not selling copies of AID from under your counter hehe.
nknave Xbox-HQ Freak
Joined: Jul 13, 2005 Posts: 866 Location: Kansas City MO
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:
don't forget this fact.
hacked bios from a mod chip runs at powerup, while the softmod runs after original bios does.
1.- if you accidently delete files that boot softmod, it's harder to recover. (hotswap, etc...). modchip.......well, just pop the AID disc or custome made recovery disc (i love my own ).
2.- hard drives are easily formated, added the needed files, and don't need to be locked for using them, modchip. just pop in new hdd, use chip's os, or AID disc, and your set. while in softmods, you must do tons of stuff, from eeprom backing, making linux disc, dissassembling your computer for new hdd prepare, this and that, not that difficult, but modchip makes it all easy.
3.- modchips cost money, could cost as much as the needed hard/software for your softmodding, but it's up to you, soldering skills, vs understanding skills. choose your own, i choose both, cause b4 i attempted anything with softmodding, i bought my modchip, but now it's all softmodding.
happy halloween, happy modding.
knave.
yoshie1 V.I.P. Lifetime Xbox Version: Xbox V1.6 Modded: Xenium ICE White
Joined: Dec 26, 2004 Posts: 958 Location: Akron, Ohio
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:34 pm Post subject:
DJB wrote:
No worries here, always glad to help. I just hope you're not selling copies of AID from under your counter hehe.
Getting 20 bucks a piece for it. Later. _________________ Xbox V1.6
Xenium ICE White
EvoX M8+ 16 137+
EvoX 3935
Maxtor 300GB
yoshie1 V.I.P. Lifetime Xbox Version: Xbox V1.6 Modded: Xenium ICE White
Joined: Dec 26, 2004 Posts: 958 Location: Akron, Ohio
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject:
Made ya look......I just had to do a second post so hopefully you looked at the first one before this one....I still can't believe some of those idiots were selling 2.11 on ebay and claiming it was theres....just goes to show people can be a$$holes.....the bad karma will get back to them...later. _________________ Xbox V1.6
Xenium ICE White
EvoX M8+ 16 137+
EvoX 3935
Maxtor 300GB
DJB Administrator
Joined: May 23, 2003 Posts: 4031 Location: NSW, Australia
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject:
Very nice item on ebay btw You thinking about getting this?
Shark2th Moderator
Joined: Nov 17, 2004 Posts: 5222 Location: Tennessee, USA
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject:
yoshie1 wrote:
Hey djb check out my new ebay auction....aid 3 a month early .
Last time I made a joke like that about that subject, I suddenly started getting free samples of adult diapers in the mail. I wonder who did that? _________________ http://twitter.com/HQ_Shark2th
jhondra V.I.P. Member Xbox Version: Xbox V1.0 Modded: Xecuter3 CE
Joined: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 288 Location: Boise, ID
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject:
The main thing that is VERY interesting to me here, is that a TON of Online Guides say that softmodding is flashing your EEPROM. This is largely false and misleading I believe. I could not find a way to back up my eeprom prior to actually applying the "softmod". That concerned me, and questions about that here went unanswered (probably I buried them in another thread or didn't explain my question very well).
Anyway, after softmodding a box, then putting a chip mod on it, (and doing nothing to "uninstall" or "unflash" the softmod prior to upgrading the HDD), I was concerned that something was still "modified" with my default eeprom for XBox Live! Fortunately, I've largely convinced myself that softmoding does NOT involve flashing or changing the core eeprom, and is only changing the BFM (boot from media), which means a HDD upgrade or restoring the original dash files, etc. should largely undo the softmod.
Let me know if there are other "subtle" things wrong with my assumptions.
Thanks,
-Jhondra _________________ Xecutor 3 CE
X3 3294 Bios
14 total successful solder-mod xbox's (v1.0 to v1.6b; favorite is v1.4 Sept 2003; very clean motherboard and usually has Samsung DVD), including two 128MB upgrades and 2 X3 LCD/CP's.
jhondra V.I.P. Member Xbox Version: Xbox V1.0 Modded: Xecuter3 CE
Joined: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 288 Location: Boise, ID
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject:
Shark2th wrote:
yoshie1 wrote:
Hey djb check out my new ebay auction....aid 3 a month early .
Last time I made a joke like that about that subject, I suddenly started getting free samples of adult diapers in the mail. I wonder who did that?
Damn! So that's where my order went?!? I really needed those...
-Jhondra _________________ Xecutor 3 CE
X3 3294 Bios
14 total successful solder-mod xbox's (v1.0 to v1.6b; favorite is v1.4 Sept 2003; very clean motherboard and usually has Samsung DVD), including two 128MB upgrades and 2 X3 LCD/CP's.
xbox-xpert Xbox-HQ Newbie Xbox Version: Xbox V1.4(Halo) Modded: Xecuter3
Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 5
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:37 am Post subject:
A softmod replaces the original xboxdash.xbe with a hacked dash (like unleash, evox). Is it the dash program that somehow overrides the original BIOS's checks for media flags, unsigned code, etc?
Does a softmod change the eeprom at all? Note: I was wrong in a previous post claiming that eeprom is read only memory; it is "Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory," which means that it can be flashed (kind of a misnomer if you ask me). So is this actually how the softmod works? By changing some info in the eeprom?
On a slightly different note, I think I was able to "undo" a friend's softmod by using SID to FTP to the softmodded box, then erasing the entire C and E partitions. I had backed up my original Xbox hard drive to my computer right after installing my modchip, so I just copied my original backups to my friends softmodded box, which seemed to undo the softmod. Did I completely undo the softmod? Or is my friend in for some bad news if he tries to go on Xbox Live?
Damn this softmodding stuff is complicated! _________________ V1.4 Halo SE Green Case
Xecuter3
320 GB Western Digital HD
ATA166 IDE
nknave Xbox-HQ Freak
Joined: Jul 13, 2005 Posts: 866 Location: Kansas City MO
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:48 am Post subject:
ok, forget about eeprom, you only need to know it if your a softmodder and you plan to upgrade hdd without a chipped xbox. there's so much on the eeprom you better not mess with.
now the flashing eeprom............nah, that's only if you know what your doing, mb you mean flashing TSOP, which you must bridge some points on your TSOP and flash you onboard bios, this would be like having a modchip.
remember: eeprom=too much trouble, ignore it for now, but if your interested read about it in the tutorials, or contact me on AIM and i could explain stuff to you, or better yet, get on the VIP chat room (i might not be there).
and NO, YOUR XBOXDASH.XBE IS NOT REPLACED WITH HOMEBREW DASH. it's rather kept to load hacked font's which load the bios loader that will load the hacked bios. hacked bios=new boot, this will boot your new dash.
peace.
knave.
ceescd1 Xbox-HQ Newbie Xbox Version: Xbox V1.4(Halo) Modded: Xecuter3
Joined: Nov 10, 2005 Posts: 2
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:19 pm Post subject:
Hi,
I was going to ask the same question as the OP so I found this thread quite interesting!
nknave, my understanding of the softmod was similar to yours (the hacked fonts cause some type of overflow on the MS dash, allowing the unsigned biosloader to load a hacked bios which then allows the dash of your choice to be started.)
What I don't understand is:
1. Why the requirements section of SIDv2 requires dash 5960? I thought the bert ernie/font exploit worked on all dashes? The two boxes I've done so far already had 5960 on them - what would happen if I tried this on an older xbox that had never been on live (ie had a much older dash?)
2. How when the softmod installer then deletes the ms dash - I didn't reinstall it, yet any time I start the xbox it boots up to evo-x. If the ms dash has been removed, what are the fonts exploiting to allow the running of the biosloader??
Thanks in advance for anyone who can enlighten me!
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